July 25 GSJ: How Vaccines Work: They Really Are Good and Safe

Hello everyone. Um, I’m going to start off. Uh, our slides are on a different computer, so

we’ll figure that out. Um, but I wanted to start off by saying thank you all for coming. Um, we really appreciate you

coming out and supporting science. Um, I am director of engagement with Science for Georgia. We are a science

communication nonprofit 501c3. Our whole

passion is to get science out of the lab and into the streets. So we do things like this where you get to engage with

science, learn something. We go into communities to find out what they’re experiencing and what they’re dealing

with and find the data sets and the maps and the infographics to that prove their

point to help them advocate for responsible use of science and public policy. We got to the capital. We

provide white papers and fact sheets to your representatives so that they kind of know what they’re voting on for the

different bills. Um, and we push a lot of these things to you and we really

appreciate all of your support. We came out of the March for Science in uh

previous president’s first previous term of our president. Um, and we wanted to

keep this going to kind of get science back out to the public. So, thank you very much. Um, one of the things we’re

doing right now is we’re doing our um, community impact report where you can

list data sets that have gone missing, science that has gone missing, support

that has gone missing in your communities and how that’s affecting you. Um, whether you know a scientist

who’s had their funding cut, whether you know data sets that have gone missing or testing sites that no one’s going to,

those things are all useful for the Jordans. Um, I will have this up on the screen at

the end of the talk as well. Um, if you’d like to get involved with

us, we’ll also have something like that. We do a lot of events like this at least once a month. We’re also going out and

doing climate survival trainings where we can teach you how to do something like set up a solar panel, start a

garden, um, forage in the forest, all sorts of fun stuff.

Or small engine repairs. One Michael recently. Um next week we’ll be working

with stand up for science um at a talk at Manuel or sorry Wild Heaven Togo

Hills um it’s called uh beyond DNA of genetics and you and Emry’s David Catz

will be giving the talk and that will be at Wednesday.

Um one other thing that I was talking about when I was talking about data sets we have publicly available data sets and

mappings on data for Georgia. So if you you’d like to go and see what’s going on in your community, you can go in, check

your zip code, and check out what’s going on. So, you can see what the air quality reports are, water quality

reports, and all the other things that are going on in Georgia. Okay. And without further ado, MG Finn,

thank you very much. Uh, so first, huge shout out to Patrick and Michael and

Science for Georgia. If you haven’t engaged with this group before. Look them up. I think it’s SI4GA is the is

the tag on on the internet. Check them out. They do some, as you just heard,

some phenomenal things. Um, a subthe of this talk is the value of data and the

value of truth. Uh, I’m going to say things that are politically incorrect and therefore the disclaimer on this

slide, I’m speaking for myself and not for my institution. Um, and one of the things I’m going to say that’s

politically incorrect is that I value data and facts. And you will see that the current administration is doing

everything they can to hide data and facts. And so, Science for Georgia is

doing their part in our local community and statewide. So, I urge you uh to support them. Um, so I hope I’m not

going to ask for show hands. I actually hope there are some vaccine skeptics here or at least people who are

concerned about vaccines and cur certainly curious about them uh because what I hope to do through this talk

which will talk about what vaccines are what the immune system is how the immune

system works and we’re going to spend how vaccines are approved and the process that it goes through um and then

I’ll tell you a little bit if I have time about what my own lab does at Georgia Tech and the overall idea of the

fact that we have an infrastructure in this country and indeed we used to lead the world in this that develops and

approve tests and approves vaccines in ways that should inspire high confidence. Uh, and the fact that that

confidence is slipping is entirely a uh a a an outcome of social media and uh

really bad actors doing their best to undermine confidence for reasons that we could discuss if you want to, but that’s

much less important than what is the science, what are the facts. So, please interrupt me at any time if you have

questions. There’ll be plenty of time hopefully for questions at the end. So first is why do we need vaccines?

What does they do? What what do we you know what we care about? And to do that to to talk about that I need to talk

about the immune system. So we are a wash as I write here in microorganisms.

Vendel Hook was the first to actually realize this when when he developed the microscope and that’s one of the images

that they saw these little things in pond water and and and whatever. And here’s one of my scientific heroes, Luis

Pescu, with an experiment that really changed the world. Right? This is an experiment where you heat that flask. I

can actually have a pointer here, I think. Try to do that. Pointer. The pointer is

not working. Hang on a second. All right. Well, I want to go through

this because I love this experiment. See, you go. Okay, so there’s a flask

there. You heat that. The flask has broth in it like you know soup broth stuff that will nurture microorganisms,

bacteria and other things. Boil the broth to kill the bacteria, right? And then if you have the uh the neck that is

the only communication with the atmosphere plugged and you see in the top right there plugged with just water

so so things can’t diffuse in through that that neck of the flask. Then nothing grows. You’ve sterilized that

that tube that that bit of But if you open it up as you as is shown

on the bottom there now bacteria that are in the air can get in and stuff starts to grow. This was one of the

first appreciations experimental verifications that in fact we have lots

of organisms floating around us. This is one of my favorite paper in which they

count how many viruses are deposited on every square meter of earth

approximately per day. And as you see here the summary it’s one trillion viruses just from the atmosphere will

land on every square meter and about 10 million bacteria. These things you’re

breeding them in all the time right now. Of course, the vast majority of them are not harmful, but some of them can

colonize your cells and start to reproduce. So, how do you fight this? Right? There’s limitless numbers of

things that want to grow in you. You are, to be honest, nothing more than a bag of broth, right? Um, and so how do

we how do we how do we fight this off? So, first of course, you establish barriers. So, we have some pretty good

barriers, right? Skin, mucous membranes, right? You know, the inner membranes of the of the nose where you’re breathing a

lot of things. There’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t get into our inards because we have pretty good barriers, but that’s

not everything, right? Then patrols. So, we need some centuries to go around our

body and say, “Hey, you know, this doesn’t belong here or there’s something we need to to fight off because it is

going to or is making us sick.” Right? So, we need patrols.

We need alarms. Ding, ding, ding. Right? There’s something here that is a problem. Right? So, you recognize this

from Game of Thrones. I don’t think that this I don’t think

that works very well on this. Oh, it absorbs it. Yeah. Um, and then of course once the patrols

sound their alarm, then you need armies. You need things to come and fight. And so this is a cartoon at the bottom of

the kind of armies that are marshaled by your immune system. On the left, LPS is

a molecule that’s secreted by bacteria that is pretty toxic. And so you have cells that patrol your body that sense

things like toxins, sense things that aren’t yourself, which is a whole I

could give which is fascinating how that is done and when those mo when those cells identify something that doesn’t

belong then they emit molecules which are the the uh the alarms the danger

signals as I write there those molecules are absorbed by other cells that exist to take in those molecular signals and

rally to the site of action and deploy uh deploy bazookas and and machine guns

and handguns and whatever to killever whatever whoever is being identified as not self and those are some of the

reinforcements that I list uh on this on the right side there’s a whole level of

different kinds of cells to respond to different kinds of foreign invaders there are different kinds of bazookas

and machine guns and whatever to be deployed all of them have evolved in order to take care of the vast majority

of microorganisms and other things that will uh that will make us sick if if that’s not

Okay. But some stuff gets through. But if I have a chance later to tell you about what we do, that’s a central theme

in in our in my laboratory’s work. I should have mentioned by the way. So I’m at Georgia Tech. I’m in the school of

chemistry and biochemistry and the school of biological sciences. And my laboratory does fundamental immunology

research on developing new vaccines. Okay. We don’t we have yet to carry a vaccine through to the clinic. So I

can’t say we have an approved vaccine but we work on the fundamentals of immunology along with Sadir Casturi

who’s back there who’s a distinguished Emry investigator and one of our close collaborators. Um, so what happens when

stuff gets through, right? So stuff either cloaks itself, so your immune system can’t see it, or it’s just so

damn good that even though the immune system sees it, the initial defenses aren’t enough, right? It starts to

infect your cells, which means starts to get into your cells, reproduce, damage your cells, and cause problems, right?

So the way you fight that is to evolve. And for those of you who don’t believe

that evolution is real, I will tell you that the reason why you are sick for two

or three days when you get a cold is it takes two or three days for evolution to

occur in your body to evolve what is effective in fighting the thing that’s making you sick. You are a real time

evolution machine. Okay? And that is a controlled regulated process in the

context of immunity. you don’t. This of course was the origin of species Darwin’s masterful treatis on evolution.

So if we have a chance, I actually want to show you a little bit how evolution works. We’re going to try to

see if I have connectivity connectivity. So I want to join my cell

phone here. Hang on a second.

So, what I’m bringing up here is a lovely little uh illustrative program called Biomar. And we’re going to do a little evolution right here. So, what is

evolution? Evolution is the the act of creating a a better response to your

conditions, to your environmental conditions, right? So, if your conditions change in biology, let’s say

your food source goes away and you need to eat something else, you have to evolve to be able to eat that new thing.

or the climate’s getting warmer, so you need to evolve to be able to withstand that extra heat, that kind of thing. So,

evolution involves creating offspring. The offspring that offspring that best

survive those conditions get to live and reproduce. The offspring that don’t get to die and that cycle just keeps going,

right? So, you need offspring who mutate, right? They need to be able to create different versions of themselves.

Ones that can withstand heat or eat something else just a little bit, right? To be able to survive. Yes.

You said we can ask question. Please do. What’s the difference between adaptation?

For for the purposes of this discussion, nothing. They’re the same thing. Okay. So, we’re adapting to a new

environment basically, but we do it actually in a molecular way. we evolve new molecules or new capabilities that

are actually molecular in nature that allow us to survive the new thing. So if

you can’t eat sucrose and now you need to eat, you know, fructose, you need to evolve enzymes that can that can better

digest sucrose for example or fructose, whatever it is. So we’re going to do a little evolution here, but the problem

might be that I don’t know if many of you can see this. So, let me So, in the center is our starting state. And we’re

just going to do a different one. Hopefully, it’ll be more very more visible. Here we go. So, in the center

is us. Okay. And around the periphery are our mutants. Okay? So, let’s pick a

a characteristic that we’re going to evolve toward. For example, it could be red will survive and blue will not. Or

it could be skinny will survive or short will survive or whatever. So, pick a characteristic. somebody purple suited

fit for this environment. And what we’re going to do is pick which one of the of the mutants is going to survive. And

then that will mutate itself in the next round. So which one is is on the way to

purple? We’re hearing bottom left is in the

middle and mutants are on the outside. So which is the next more purple one? Top left.

Top left. Keep going. far right. Say again.

Middle far right. This one here. Yeah, that’s right. Okay. And we’re getting really purple, right?

Anybody else? Where else are we getting? Sometimes it’s neutral. Sometimes

there’s nothing that’s really better. So, let’s select a a mutant and see if that starts us in a new direction. So,

what’s what’s the choice here? Which is more purple? Top middle. Okay.

Okay. So, we’ve gotten pretty purple. Now, let’s change the selection. Now, let’s say the environment says we’ve got

to be skinny or short. Okay. Good. Short.

Okay. As a short person, I like this. So, so now, which one makes us more fit

for the environment? Which one is shortest? Top right. Okay. Now, remember, we’re

selecting for short, and we don’t care about purple anymore. Now, which one? Top middle.

Now top left maybe a hair.

Bottom left. Bottom left. Okay. Let’s see if we can evolve for short and and horizontally extended.

What do you think? Top right. Top right. I’m hearing.

Okay, you get the idea. I hope. Right. Evolution, you know, Google that and have fun with it. All right. So, how

does this happen? Just this is a little bit of shortorthhand. So, these little bars, the the circles are cells that are

engineered by evolution to evolve when signaled to do so. And they rearrange

their genes in very interesting ways to create new antibodies. You’ve heard of antibodies perhaps, right? To create new

structures that bind to new things. And it’s really a a really wonderfully

interesting process how those are are expressed, how that function is tested.

And you can get an idea of that. Oops. Let me try the pointer.

Oh yeah, here I got some for you. MG MG right here. Oh, excellent. This is much better.

Okay. So these genetic codes are then expressed into turned into proteins that

are put on the surface of the cell and each of these cells has a different version of the protein because of all of

the new gene re combinations that have happened. So you turn on evolution

within the space of about a day. You start from about a million different patrols, million different cells with

certain genetic characteristics. You generate probably a 100 million variants from that and those are then selected on

the basis of what which one binds best to the target. How this happens is also

fascinating and then the circle of evolution happens again and again, right? You evolve for more efficient binders that do the proper signaling. So

hopefully you get the the the sense that this is the way you respond to new challenges. It’s not that you have a

barrier to everything is that you evolve properly. Make sense? Okay.

So, let us continue. If I shut off my Okay. So, then you evolve better

patrols. And this is a cartoon of And those little these little Y-shaped molecules are antibodies. A cartoon of

antibodies. And they have a little signal on the back end that says, “Anything I’m bound to, please consume.”

And that’s what the white blood cells in your body do. Yes.

Okay. Okay, so an antibbody in general terms is a molecule that binds to a

specific target and it is a product of the immune system. Okay, so that you

have a an initial a set of about a million different cells that produce

about a million different antibodies that are anchored to their surface. They patrol and the ones that find something

that doesn’t belong in your body and it’s really wonderful. All of these million cells are edited so that they

don’t bind anything in your body. The only thing they bind is stuff that doesn’t belong there. And when they do

that, then signals are turned on. This evolution process is turned on and more antibodies are made. So when they’re

attached to the cell, these antibodies are called receptors. When they’re excreted freely into the bloodstream,

they’re called antibodies, but they’re basically the same thing. Okay? So they are molecular patrols that when they

bind to something cause another response to happen. Make sense? Okay. Now I can

talk about the structure of antibodies and all that all day long but you don’t want to hear that. Okay. So how do we

defend ourselves when something gets through something defeats all of this process? Right? We do get sick after

all. Okay? And sometimes we want to avoid getting sick which is why we want

to have a vaccine because sometimes those diseases will kill us right our our immune system will lose. Okay. So

this is just um the reason why I got interested in this subject as a 13 or 14

year old boy. Um this is the movie Fantastic Voyage. Some of you may

remember this. Well some of you may remember the scene that that made the the greatest impact on me. These are the

shrunken down scientists that are now swimming in the bloodstream of the the person they’re trying to save, right?

And this is Raquel Welch, the object of of my of my uh my interest at that

point. And you can you can see why. Um and and and uh here’s Raquel in trouble.

And then here’s Raquel having been assaulted by antibodies because she doesn’t really belong in the body there,

right? And and these men are pulling antibodies off of her bodice in particularly interesting location to a

14-year-old boy. So, um, so I knew right away that antibodies were interesting. Okay.

Okay. So, so we need to understand in order to make a vaccine. So, how do we

make a vaccine? A vaccine exists to give the immune system a head start in this

evolution process. So, all we do with a vaccine is introduce into the body

something that looks like pathogen that we know is going to kill us. So that the

immune system has time to develop a response and then as it turns out the immune system remembers that response.

It’s called imunological memory. Sudir story is an expert in this subject. An imunological memory is actually a family

of cells that actually retain the antibodies structures that we were talking about and they exist and are

ready to rally to the cause in far less than two or three days because they

don’t have to do evolution again. And that’s what a vaccine is. A vaccine is something that elicits an immune

response to something that makes you sick. But the vaccine itself does not make you sick. It just looks like what

makes you sick. Physically looks like it actually. Yes.

How does impact? Yes. Um that is a subject that I don’t know

detailed information about. So you might know um but there are diseases such as

HIV right so HIV is particularly problematic because HIV targets immune

cells. And so the reason why HIV people infected with HIV are in such trouble is

now they can’t fight off diseases. So they don’t die of HIV, they die of the the infections that then they can fight.

No, it’s really a In in the simplest terms it’s success breeds success and

breeds is actually the operative word here breeds I mean make stuff right make progeny

so when you are successful okay i.e you have fought off the disease. Those

antibodies, those cells that bring those antibodies have proliferated. Okay? Then there’s a pathway that says,

“Ah, let me store this information in turns out in the bone.” Okay? And so those cells are made and

stored in the bone marrow because bone marrow lives a long time, lives as long as you do, right? And is ready to to

come to your And so that’s why if you’re getting bone marrow transplant, you have to be very

isolated. Correct. You have to be imunosuppressed, right? So they’ll knock out your whole immune system, transfer the bone marrow,

and then if you’re lucky, you can recover your immune system. Yes. How does how do things get in and out of

the bone marrow? How do things get in out of the bone marrow? Um the cells that we say home to

the bone marrow, they just know to go there and molecular.

Yes. Oh yeah. So it has a blood. Okay. So we’re at the point where there’s

stuff that’s going to kill us. Our immune system for the most part can’t So, we need to make a vaccine to give the immune system a head start, right?

We’re all with us. So, then when we make vaccines, of course, we have to study the organism that we’re trying to fight.

So, here’s some bacteria that all of which, you know, will kill you. Uh, and most all of these drugresistant strains

that are that are now circulating in the clinic. Um, here’s viruses. Viruses are

interesting because this is kind of how they work in general. at the top right here. They’re these are little inanimate

particles that have molecules on their surface that get into certain cells. They have a genome inside them that gets

replicated and they make more of themselves. And they hurt you because they just disrupt the cells that are

making them, right? They’re not animate. They don’t metabolize. They don’t take in energy. They’re just little

circulating things that exist only to replicate their genomes. Um, and of course, there’s a trillion of them that

land on you every day. Um, And here’s a different kind of virus.

This is um uh sorry, yellow fever virus on the left. This is from the CDC. And I

just put this up here because yellow fever virus circulates not only in humans but as you see here uh in in

monkeys, right? So there are many viruses that get transmitted, remember,

right? Get transmitted from monkeys or birds, the bird flu and all of that because they can circulate in more than

one kind of organism, right? typically mammals or closely related species. Make

sense? So, we study them. Oh, here’s more viruses. This is this is one of the original images of a virus like the Ben

Lewan hook image of bacteria. So, these are these little uh capsules here are

viruses that have that are that are binding to a cell surface waiting to get in. And here’s a cell that is just full

of viruses that has broken open, right? And the viruses are now leaving to infect more cells.

I actually I don’t remember. Okay. So, vaccines, this quote, very

famous quote, the greatest feat of modern medicine. Vaccines were started, of course, by Edward Jenner and others

now more than 200 years ago, of course. Um, and we call them vaccines because the first one was vaccinia. That was the

name of the of the virus. Vaccinia virus is closely related to the smallox virus.

And so, it’s molecular mimicry. Vaccinia makes you sick but doesn’t kill you. It’s not as bad as smallox. If you

evolve a response to vaccinia, it looks so much like smallox that you also have a response to smallox. Make sense? So,

this was a great example of the strategy that we use today to make uh to make vaccines. So, the greatest feat of

modern medicine is the eradication of smallox, right? Measles was almost eradicated in this uh in this country

until idiots came aboard. So, We can do this again. Here’s CO, of

course. Here’s the SARS KV2 virus, right? The latest in a family of respiratory viruses that have caused

many diseases over the years. And you you probably have seen this picture and are sick of it, right? But it’s an

important because it highlights the target of vaccines of all co, right? The surface of this red bit. That red bit is

a particular protein that binds to the target cells in our in our bodies. So if

we develop antibodies that bind to this surface instead, it will physically

block the entry of the virus into your cells. Thus, thus a vaccine. Make sense?

So we need to know what that structure is and we need to make it or make something that looks like it in order to

immunize our population. And that’s what was done. So here are 31 approved vaccines. This is the full list of

vaccines currently approved uh for use in the United States or I should say the full list of pathogens against which we

have approved vaccines. For some of them there are multiple different vaccines, right? Like co

you’ve heard of the different kinds of vaccines from different manufacturers. But here’s all the virus all of the the

viruses and bacteria that you’re allowed to get a vaccination for in this country. It’s a pretty impressive list,

right? There’s a lot of stuff there that you don’t want. Now, most of us don’t get most of these vaccines because we

live in a country where these diseases are not circulating, right? But if you’re traveling worldwide, you’re going

to get a lot more of them, right? You’re going to get a lot of these vaccines. Some of these vaccines last a long time

because the memory function is good. The memory cells at home to your bone marrow

are that’s an efficient process. Some of the vaccines don’t last that long, so you need to get a new one because either

the v the the pathogen mutates or the vaccine just doesn’t last a long time.

So, as vaccine developers, we try to both improve current vaccines, make them

last longer, make them more effective, or develop new vaccines against organisms that are not on this list. And

that’s what my lab tries to do. Okay, make sense? All right, so let’s talk

about how vaccines are approved. This is a a graphic from the CDC. Pause for 30 seconds of CDC love.

Okay. All right. The CDC is the world’s foremost diagnostic facility. If you’re

sick with something anywhere in the world and your government or community doesn’t know what it is, they will send

a sample to the CDC or the CDC will send people out there worldwide. Okay? It is

the premier institution for this in the world. The fact that it is not funded at

10 times its current level is a crime. The fact that it is being attacked is a

double crime. Sure, the CDC made some mistakes in communicating about CO, big deal, right? The CDC is incredibly

valuable. The people there are phenomenal. We work with some of them and they really need to be to be

supported and of course in Atlanta we all support them. But tell your friends, right? Okay. So this is a graphic from

the CDC and I’m going to walk you through this process so that you can hopefully if you’re not a vaccine skeptic you can talk to people who are

in your life. Okay. So the first part of it is research discovery and preclinical

studies. This is what my lab this is the area that my lab’s involved in. This is mostly funded by federal grants. So when

the NIH budget is cut by 40% as is currently on the table that means we and

many many other people aren’t going to be able to do the work we need to do to develop new of vaccines. That’s where

that money comes from, right? Almost all, in fact, I think all of the vaccines you saw on that list started

out with research that is fedally funded. Okay? So, what goes on here is

we do a lot of research to find what the pathogen is to develop testing that test vaccines. We test them and then the

pre-clinical studies part is what we have to do to initially assess their safety so that we can then ask the FDA

for permission to test them in humans. So this is many many years. Okay. And

animal testing you know we do it as little as possible but it is absolutely necessary in order to assess how

effective vaccines are because a vac the vac the immune system is very complex

and at least until up to now it is impossible to replicate the immune

system in any model that we’re able to think of or construct. So we do have to do lots of animal testing. We do it

again as humanely as possible. So all of that takes many years can be can be you know 5 10 20 30 years mRNA vaccines the

ones that you know that that the co mRNA vaccination was 30 years in development.

So people were worried oh this seems like something brand new. No this phase took 30 years for mRNA vaccines to get

to the point where they could be safely deployed and engineered and deployed against CO. Okay. Then the middle part

is clinical trials clinical studies. So after I forgot to

So when we’re here and we finish, we submit what’s called an investigational a new investigational

new whatever investigation new drug application. There we are. I never remember what the acronym means at the

top left. That is a collection of data that the laboratories involved have collected. There’s a meeting with the

federal food and drug administration. They have staff members who are expert in any area that you that you care to

bring forward to them for a new medicine or vaccine. They review your data. They say, “Oh, we need to know something

more. We need to know this. We need to know that.” Most of it is talked about is concerned safety, right? But some of

it is efficacy. Does it work? So, when you submit an IND and it goes in several

rounds of of evaluation, the FDA says, “Okay, you’re approved. You can proceed. Now, you go to clinical trials.” So you

many of you may have heard phase one, phase two, phase three. Phase one is purely about safety. If you give a

vaccine to somebody, is it going to make them sick? Phase two is about safety and effectiveness. Does it work? Phase three

is about even more safety and effectiveness just on larger numbers of people. And we’re going to go through an

important example here in a minute. Safety is everywhere here, even in phase two when it’s not written. It is the

primary concern. Why? because you give vaccines to healthy people. So when we

develop a medicine, we being the larger scientific community against a disease that’s not a vaccine, right? You’re sick

with cancer or you’re sick with with something else. You’re willing to tolerate a little bit of risk in order to get better, right? So giving

medicines to people who are sick has a different riskreward calculus than giving medicines to people who are

healthy. So the safety aspect of the scale for vaccine development is way

more stringent than the safety scale for anything else and super more stringent

than the safety scale for cancer. Right? Cancer people will take stuff that is actively toxic because you’re just

trying to kill the cancer cells. You don’t care what else gets killed. Right? But vaccines are very very different.

Right? So we have to be ultra safe with vaccines. So this is the time number one

of many times I’m going to repeat this. If if the vaccine is approved, it is

safe. It has been tested for safety in many many layers of of investigation,

including in humans, as we’ll see in a minute. And there is no no motivation. Conspiracy theories are suck because

they’re too complicated. There is no motivation to make a vaccine that isn’t safe. If you make a vaccine that is not

safe, you will get thrown in jail. Okay? you will your life will be ruined. There

is no motivation for this. Okay? So, just ignore anybody who tells you, oh,

you know, they’re trying to put computer chips in my vaccine. Okay? Sorry, I missed another important

uh abbreviation. Biologics license application is what you submit again to the FDA after you fed past phase three.

And here are the timelines above here, which is pretty fast. One, two, and four years. Now, CO was different because we

were in a pandemic. Yes. Are those tested on humans or Yes. So, now we’re in human studies. And

I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear. These are all in humans, right? Okay. So, we’re going to talk about then the

BLA gets submitted if that is approved. And here’s what goes into a BLA. Preclinical and clinical data from

people, right? Details about manufacturing. They go in and inspect the manufacturing facilities. They test

what’s what’s being produced. They test it all the time. information about that manufacturing facility has a critical

part of being allowed to make a vaccine. So, it’s not just we’re going to close our eyes and and walk away. The FDA

closely monitors vaccine production. Okay. So, once that’s all done, then

you’re into now the vaccine is approved. Oops, I think I missed a slide. Um,

hopefully I’ll get to this next slide because we get there because it’s important.

Okay, I’m going to step you through the uh approval process. And which one?

Oops. Okay, so I So all of this is publicly information, publicly available

information. By the way, the document I’m going to show you was that Google search clinical trial co data COVID

vaccine 2020. You can do this for anything, right? Go look up any vaccine you want. All of this information is

publicly available from the Food and Drug Administration. Okay, so here’s the FDA page for the Fiser Biontech CO9

vaccine. This is the first one that from Fizer that got approved and we’re going to walk through this. So here’s Fizer.

Oh, Fiser did it. It must not be reliable, right? Don’t they have a vested interest? I can understand that

that that caution, right? One could worry that this is because they can make a profit. Maybe they’re cutting corners.

If they get cut if they cut corners and they get caught, they go to jail. Okay?

They lose billions of dollars. There is no motivation to cut corners in a vaccine. Okay? None. Fiser does it

because yes, Fiser did the work. They have the resources to do this. The federal government can and does fund

clinical trials, but it needs a manufacturer to bring the vaccine to market. So that’s why we have this

system in the United States. Yes. Are there situations where

we’re going to get to that. Yeah, great question. Okay, so here’s part of the the table of contents, phase one, phase

two. We’re going to go through a little bit of this here. So here’s phase one. It turns out Fiser did two phase one studies in the early days and then they

went to phase two, phase three. So here was the first phase one. And this speaks to your question here. Now this is only

about 100 people, right? So 45 younger participants, 45 older participants.

They break it down. 42% male, 58% female, 87 white, 47% Hispanic Latino.

no black people in this in this study. Um, this is a topic that is of course of

great concern and and is largely was largely being addressed, but this is

what it was. Now, older people, 45 62% female, 100% white here, right? Number

like, you know, they were in a pandemic. This is, you know, recruiting people for something new is hard. Okay, so here’s

some of the summary. And by the way, all the data is available. This is the summary of all this when they say do

your own research, right? Don’t go to some blog and you know have somebody, you know, if you really want to do your own research, this information is here

and it’s not that hard to read. Okay, so AE important abbreviation adverse

events. So what they’re looking for in phase one is an adverse event, a reaction to the vaccine. Okay, the

problem is that people have adverse events all the time. I get sick not

because I had a vaccination I just get sick right I fall down and break my leg whatever okay so what they have to do is

have enough people so that they can filter out the normal adverse events from the vaccine related adverse events

and that’s what all of this is is is designed to do so you can read this up to one month uh after dose two the

incidences of adverse events were higher across dose levels for younger participants compared to placebo meaning

they got an injection of just just you know liquid right nothing in it okay

whereas incidence across dose levels in the older group were similar or less than placebo and then the the pro the

question is is this 33 to 41% versus 22 is that an expert to look at that

information right um but nobody dropped out nobody died it turns out tell me

what the adverse events are right now what did you feel like when you got your COVID vaccine little lethargy tired soreness right

injections and all of that. That’s what they were looking at. That’s what they received. Yes.

It It depends. But yes, there is. There are definitely standard criteria for that. Absolutely.

Okay. So, it’s Yeah, it’s all self-reported. But again, if

No, no, no. It’s it’s very true. But the

I actually just want to be uh she so the vaccine recruitment process

you know recruiting people and the monitoring that’s all monitored at the FDA so you have to submit how you found

the people who they were and all of that that that information is not public the identities of the people are not public

that’s all protected but that whole process is also under scrutiny okay so it sounds like I’m an apologist for you

know for for for this industry looked at this data very very closely. I went through everything I could get my hands

on and I was astonished at the quality of the of the reporting and the science. This is really good stuff and this is

pretty par for the course for most vaccines except it takes 10 times longer. Right here we were in COVID they

needed a vaccine you know as quickly as possible. So it was all compressed. There were some things they couldn’t do.

They couldn’t look 10 years out but you’ll see in a minute how they compensated for that. Okay.

So, safety conclusions, I didn’t highlight anything here. Um, reactogenicity, which means you know your injection site pain was mostly mild

to moderate. Clinical laboratory showed something which is actually happens in all vaccines. So, there was no

indications here that there were a there was a problem. So, they passed phase one. They did two phase ones as I

mentioned. Okay. Now, here’s phase two and phase three. The biggest difference between CO and all other vaccine

processes is they combined phase two and phase three because we were in an emergency. So, but what they did was

they just used a ferocious amount of people. 18,000 people 19,000 people in

the in the vaccine group, 19,000 people in the placebo group. Okay. Here they’re following them less. There’s there’s a

group that they split out following them over short period, a group that they follow over the long term, right? 9,000

each. Okay? And then they follow them for different periods. And that’s important because they check the

responses of the body at different periods. Right? Okay. Um demographics.

Now, they got a little better here. 83% white, 9% black, 4.3% Asian. The white

category is also includes Hispanic and Latino, 28% and Latino, median age 52.

So, a better distributed uh segment of the population, men and women. Here’s

adverse events again. Now 9,000 group in one of those cohorts being evaluated.

Any event 2,000 versus 1,000 for the placebo. Maybe that’s maybe that’s a problem. Vaccine related 1300 to 300.

That looks like a large increase. Let’s go in and find out what those are. Hey, it’s all my arm is sore. I feel

lethargic. I recover after a day or two. My blood chemistry. my lymphosytes go

away for a day or two because that’s what happens in vaccines. They dug into each one of these cases because that’s

what you have to do. Life-threatening 10 versus 11. In other words, 11 people who

got nothing had a life-threatening event. Well, that makes sense, right? But looking at 10,000 people over the course

of four or five months, and some of them are older folks, right, like me, you know, 10 or 11 of them are going to have

a life-threatening event. So, that’s not an indication of a problem. the people who want to uh seow vaccine hesitancy or

fear will take these numbers and say, “Hey, you’re causing deaths.” Right?

This is the essential one of the key strategies to mislead people about

vaccine safety. Okay? You can cherrypick those numbers without context and make it seem really scary.

Okay? Any serious or adverse event, now we’re down to the same number as placebo. Okay? So the vaccine had no

difference in serious adverse events for example.

So here’s the kinds of things an analysis of adverse events severe or life-threatening related adverse events

deaths in the study right no you don’t want any of those that weren’t caused by the vaccine serious adverse events in

this study leading to study withdrawal clinical adverse effects events of

clinical interest they dig into all of this severe COVID cases so now we’re getting to effectiveness and I’ll show

you that data in a minute and then pregnancy right turns out uh uh 23

participants got pregnant during the during the study and what did they do? They didn’t just drop them, they

followed them, right? The study and the the people doing the study followed the pregnancies to make sure that they

didn’t have any vaccine related incidents either. Okay. Uh so safe and well tolerated. I’m

going to skip this to go to the efficacy. Here’s efficacy. Here’s the vaccinated group, 20,000

people. The placebo placebo group and we’re looking 10 days after the second dose up until I

forget how long um nine people got COVID in this group 169 got the placebo got co

pretty effective vaccine that’s how they calculate the percent effectiveness you’ve seen these numbers it’s 95%

effective or whatever that’s the number here vaccine vaccine efficiency 946%

it’s 9 169 or sum of those two that make sense Okay, so this data just came, you

know, waves and waves. Here’s this is why you get a co booster, right? First

CO occurrence after dose one 50 versus 275. Then after dose one, before dose

two, 39 to 82. Again, pretty standard ratio. But now after you get your second dose, even seven days later, it’s only

two versus one as much. And here now, 7 days after 9 versus 172. So you get a

booster, your immune system is now were able to handle the virus. Make sense?

Okay. So, here’s, you know, here’s the the plot, right? People who got placebo kept

getting sick. These are the number cumulative number of people who got sick during this study. People who got vaccinated, that line pretty much

flattens out. How can you look at that and not want to get a vaccine? Well,

there’s a lot of fear out there and I totally understand this. I am not at all criticizing people who are vaccine

hesitant. Oh, I do want to sorry, this is what I wanted to get to. After the vaccine is approved and marketed, right,

produced and marketed. Now, there’s what’s called phase 4. So, the FDA continues to monitor, okay, and monitor

for for adverse events that pop up. And there is a mechanism for that that the public can engage with. It’s called the

vaccine adverse event reporting system, theirs, okay? And in the whole history

of this system which is about 30 years old, one vaccine has been withdrawn from the market because of three adverse

events reported in this system of a very rare complication and that was the roto

shield virus vaccine against against roto virus. Okay. All the rest all the other vaccines have maintained their

viability because this system people will will log in. This is a public system. you can report, hey, I feel

terrible or my son died after getting the vaccine or whatever. And people will

take a very close look at this and and try to figure out did your son die because of the vaccine? Right. Yeah.

So I have never heard of that before. Is that something where like primary care physicians

would if someone came to them with something to report? So physicians can access this

but public can too. If you if you think you’re having a problem with a vaccine and you go online and say you know I’m

you know I’m hurt by a vaccine this will pop up. Yeah. So the problem is a big problem is

that this system is being violently misused. So, you’ve heard of some of the

people on that that uh Secretary Kennedy has recruited to vaccine approval, and we’ll talk about that in a second,

right? And some of them are part of an organization that challenges vaccine safety. They use data from this database

and they cherrypick it in ways that are not honest uh in order to scare people. Okay? because you can go to this

database and find, you know, a 100,000 reports of an adverse event to some

vaccine and all of them are not a problem. They’re not because of the

vaccine. They’re, you know, arm pain or whatever. Or it’s my son died and I’m in agony and it must be the vaccine

because, you know, why else would my son die? I I totally get that. But there are

people who have to look at that information and decide, is that really the cause or not? And that that that

evaluation is done in a sober you know very both understanding and scientifically rigorous way. So again

the people who evaluate these data there is no mileage in hiding a problem right

it doesn’t make any sense to do so. So they are hyper sensitive to this via this system. And then there’s the

national vaccine injury compensation program. This was started in the 1980s because even though vaccines are safe,

there are people who suffered, you know, terrible loss. My son died after the vaccine, right? That person is is in

agony and they want some closure. And so instead of litigating all of these

cases, the federal government established a system. It’s actually a separate court system to adjudicate

these claims and actually award money to families who have suffered even though

they have not suffered because of the vaccine but they suffered after the vaccine. And you can actually go and you

know you have to make your case but people will get paid large amounts of money out of this. And it’s just a way

to help the people who have suffered and also to avoid lengthy court cases that

really would end up bankrupting the people who are trying to bring the action. Right. Um and it’s just it’s

just more efficient to do it this way and it’s humane. This system is currently under attack by the Trump

administration. Yes.

FDA. It’s both. The FDA is absolutely

involved in in evaluating phase phase four data.

Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, again, people wouldn’t trust if Fizer was the reporting agency,

right? So, all right. So, where you get your information matters. So, here’s just a

snippet of some of this kind of stuff. And again, I don’t blame people who are vaccine hesitant if all they’ve heard is

vaccines are unsafe, right? I get that. But here’s an interesting plot. So,

vaccines were available and we’re looking at now April of 2020, right? You remember those bad old days. Blue is

Democrat is people in red is people in states with Republican cover. Early days, there were more Democrats getting

sick, if I can abbreviate it that way, than Republicans. Why? Because Democrats live in cities more than Republicans do.

Okay? But then it crossed over and around June now more Republicans are getting Republicans getting sick than

Democrats and there wasn’t a vaccine. So this was about masking. This was about protecting yourself, isolating. There

were people who were in a social medu that said, “No, this is not a problem and you shouldn’t do that.” Right? Where

you get your information matters. Here’s another one. A study of excess death rates for Republican and Democratic

registered voters in Florida and Ohio. They did this study 2018 to 2021. Okay,

so early days of CO still during that time about half a million people died of any cause in those two states. And what

these folks did, these are rigorous statisticians. They calculated how many people would be

expected to die and then how many people actually did die, would be expected from natural causes. And so before CO 19,

Republican and Democratic voters were about the same, right? All around zero. In other words, people were dying at the

expected rate. There was not a pandemic. Okay? Now COVID hits. before vaccines

were eligible, before they were available, the the the orange and the blue, Republicans and Democrats are

about the same. Notice now we’re way above excess deaths, right? People are dying from COVID, okay? But it’s roughly

the same between Republican and Democrats in Ohio and Florida. After vaccines, look what happens. Republican

deaths stay high. Democrats, these are registered voters now. Democrats, the

deaths in those two states were much lower. Where you get your information matters,

right? Because people were not getting the vaccine or getting the vaccine. This study from a European group from 2021 to

2022, at least 232,000 excess deaths are estimated from vaccine

hesitancy in this country. 232,000 people, and that may be conservative,

died unnecessarily because our leaders badmouth vaccines,

I’m sorry, that is a fact. So remember that, please.

230,000 people died unnecessarily.

This persists, right? Here’s measles. Somebody asked about measles before. This was like a month or two ago from the Washington Post, right? El Paso went

from five cases to 53 um because of young adults not getting vaccinated to

what they see and hear on social media. Menite families have no problem with any religion, right? But in this particular

case, it was Menanites who avoid vaccination, right? And this very sad case of of a of a child who died from

measles. And here’s our uh our NHS leader RFK Jr. praised the doctor that

they went to who told them not to get vaccinated but treated them with some quack remedies right and this poor

family you know blames her death on medical error rather than vaccination that’s very very sad I certainly don’t

blame them but it’s wrong it is simply wrong it is not factually correct so

where you get your information so here we are right 31 approved vaccines uh

let’s make some more So I’ll just tell you very briefly what we do. So we study among other things sugars,

carbohydrates, you know, like sugars that it turns out different sugars coat every cell in your body and every cell

in nature and different organisms make different sugars. Okay, which is a fun fact. However, all the sugars bit of

chemistry for you. All the sugars kind of look alike. Okay, red is oxygen, white is hydrogen, and black is carbon.

These are different sugars, but if you look from above, it’s just red circles, white circles, and black circles.

There’s nothing else. Chemically speaking, they’re all very, very similar. And yet, three-dimensionally,

they’re very different. So, organisms coat themselves, some path, many

pathogens coat themselves in molecules that look like this because they look like our sugars and so they hide from

the immune system, right? They’re just not seen properly. So years ago, we developed a way to break through that

invisibility. And so the way we do that is we use particles like this. This is a

protein particle that is actually a virus. Okay? It’s a virus that infects bacteria, but it looks a lot like

viruses that infect us. And we’re just giving a movie here. Chemists for chemists. This is thrilling. Okay? This

is, you know, where the atoms are and what kind of atoms they are and all of that. But yes, my professor there is a

chemist at Georgia Tech. Um, and so all of this is just to show you that we know

what viruses look like at an atomic level or at least many of them do and we

can use them. So this virus is doesn’t affect doesn’t infect us. It infects

bacteria. But if we inject it into us, our immune system sees it as a virus and

says, “Hey, my I better I better, you know, react to this. I better make antibodies to this. And so what we

discovered years ago was that if we attach to this virus molecules that are

characteristic of diseases, then the immune system will see those molecules

characteristic of the disease and react to the disease if it comes. So one of

the ones we’re working on is lemania lemanasis, a horrible disease that infects about a million or two million

people a year. There’s a cutaneous form. I won’t show you truly horrific pictures. And there’s a visceral form

which infects your organs. The visceral form is deadly. The cutaneous form is merely disfiguring. It is the second

most uh deadly uh pathogen uh parasitic pathogen disease known to

humans and there is no vaccine. There’s very few treatments. It’s transmitted by a a sandfly and I’ll show you that life

cycle in a minute here I think. So here’s where here’s where it exists, right? Heavily in Brazil and parts of

South America, somewhat in Mexico. It’s an ancient disease in the Middle East. It’s called the rose of hein in the

Middle East, in parts of Africa. So it’s worldwide distributed. And you see the the red in Mexico. This disease is

coming north to a neighborhood near you because the sandfly because of climate change is migrating north, right? So

there are now hundreds of cases in Texas uh and uh Texas mostly and Florida.

Here’s the life cycle. It’s a pernicious little bug. Um it it’s transmitted by the fly goes into you. It actually

mutates. It not mutates. It trans morphs like a caterpillar butterfly thing. Right? So there’s a form called promasat

and they get into cells and they transform into a different form. The sandfly comes and takes some of that

from your blood again that now transforms in the sandfly to the to the

the infectious form which then gets transmitted back to you. There’s also a circle here which I’m not showing in

dogs. Lemania lives in dogs and can propagate in dogs as well and then back to humans.

So we really need a vaccine for this. Right. The primary symptoms again. So for lemon mania it’s obvious um

either cutaneous lemonasis is on the skin all over the body, right?

And can be quite disfiguring. You can get what’s called mucoutaneous lemon lmanasis, which is the um the tissues of

the mouth and the digestive tract. Horrible disease. And then visceral lemonasis is infecting the liver and

spleen primarily and that will kill you or can you So this is a parasite. I did

I forgot to mention that. So it’s an organism that reproduces and eats what we eat. So we’ve made a vacine for this

or we we think it works. It turns out to be a sugar. It’s a unique it’s a sugar that’s on the the surface of these cells

that lushmanasis that the lushmania cells and we make a vaccine on one of

these particles that I showed you. And we make a control vaccine which is just glucose. That’s glucose. So we don’t

want an immune response to glucose. And we test this in mice because that’s what you have to do to start. And here’s mice

that have been infected with this with this parasite that have not been vaccinated or vaccinated with a with a

placebo and here’s the mice that have been vaccinated and they’re completely free of the disease in the liver and the

spleen. This is the form that will kill you, right? And so we’ve done, you know, dozens of these kinds of tests uh and we

are um hopefully ready to move. We’re moving on. So we’ve optimized this in

mice. We’re now testing for safety in rats. And once we have that data, then we’re going to go to the FDA and say,

“What do we need to do to be able be tested in humans because turns out this vaccine will only work in the mice we

have uh and in non-human primates for reasons I will get I won’t get into

but anyway that’s what happens in this original research phase of of the study we’ve been doing this for 10 years right

so it takes a long time okay so raising money is important so I

guess that’s it for the moment I do want to thank um the people that give us money because that enables us to to get

involved in The National Institutes of Health is the primary funer of research like this in the United States. Um their

uh budget uh used to be 70 uh sorry our non-defense uh budget for all of

scientific research was $70 billion a year. That sounds like a lot. It’s not. It’s much less per capita than many

countries in Europe. And that was before the Trump administration, right? The NIH budget is about onethird of that. Okay.

And shrinking fast. So write your Congress people please. I’m on speed dial with senators Waro and uh and Osaf

and they are certainly on board but they need all the all the support they can get.

Engineering is what we do. Children’s Healthcare of Atlanta is a cherished partners of ours uh in this and other work and then other agencies as well.

But another thing I want to leave you with is scientific research and development at the FDA and the

laboratories whatever is a personal thing. People do this. These are people who want to serve. Yes, I get paid a

salary. Sure, these wonderful people who trained with me and got their PhDs or their degrees, they want to go get a

salary, but they could make more money elsewhere. They’re all incredibly smart, right? They just want to make a difference and they have they have found

scientific research to be that that way to do that. So, I’m not saying, you know, so we do it, yes, because we want

to earn a living, but for many other reasons as well. And it’s just a joy to do. Um, and again, there is no mileage

for us whatsoever in falsifying anything or doing anything underhanded because there’s so much good stuff to do where

you don’t need to you don’t need to cheat. Um, you need to just do good work. So, these are the wonderful people

that do it. This is a special guy. Here’s Alejandra Marquez. He’s our collaborator. He was in Brazil on the

Lushmania project. He’s now at the University of Southern Mississippi with his own laboratory and we collaborate in

that work. And, uh, here’s the current group and two folks at the end and the wonderful

Megan Andrews and Jeff Noble Deash are the current folks working with Sudir and me and others uh to develop these these

candidate vaccines. So I will leave it there but first I want to thank oh sorry

in case you want to do some reading this is a wonderful book about the discovery of the first vaccine. So Dr. Jenner and

the speckled monster it’s a great read. The demon under the microscope is the story of the the development of the

modern drug discovery enterprise. It’s a fascinating story on the discovery of sulfa drugs and really will get you kind

of into what is involved in in finding a new drug. Not a vaccine necessarily. And

then this is my favorite book of all time. This is out of control. It’s about evolution. It’s a it’s about it’s a

popular science book. There’s not a lot of biology in it, but it’s all about how evolution works and how powerful it is.

It’s a great read. book by Kevin Kelly, editor of Wire.

Okay. So, yes, please. So, that was my thanks to Science of Georgia. Thanks to you and

questions. Yes,

I don’t know that one. Oh, myocarditis. Okay. Yeah. I’m not familiar with the

literature on that one. So I will have to I would have to check. So So here’s a good question. If you don’t know about

it, what do you do? Right. So doing Google searching is fine, but it’s where

the sources come from that that you should that you should read about. Much of of modern science is research

publications. So I would advise you to go to the National Library of Medicine.

Okay? You can Google that and put in your search terms. What you is a list of papers and all of them have their

abstracts available. You can read them. You don’t need a subscription to anything. Read the abstracts and you’ll

get a sense of what that research is is all about sources. You’ll get a good

picture of what’s going on. You can also of course go to reputable people who digest that. But in this particular

case, I don’t know what the data is. MG, can I uh can I throw in that we’ve

been working on the myocarditis question. I don’t know if Ethan has anything. Do you want to say anything about it? Yes. So, it’s actually very

similar to the case where you have a lot of testing and only 11. It’s there is an

increased risk for myocarditis, but it’s extremely rare. It presents extremely

rare and certain. So it’s not really something that most people

make two points. So nothing is completely free of risk, right? It’s always a risk benefit calculation. It’s

completely free of risk, right? It’s always a risk benefit calculation. And the point I’m trying to the point I’m

trying to make is the risk on approved vaccines is quite low, but it’s not exactly zero, right? The other point I

will make which just bled my head.

So go to the CDC website and and you’ll get you’ll find information about

immunization of infants, okay, and problems and it’s there and they will tell you, you know, that it’s that it is

here’s the recommend. what you should use. Um, and that’s, you know, because of my respect for the CDC,

that’s the source that I go to. Um, and I don’t know what else you can do other

than to say, you know, I was at a talk and I was convinced that that if the

vaccine is approved for use in a certain segment of the population, it has been rigorously tested. That’s what I’m

trying to say one more thing about the CDC. You heard the Kennedy fired 17 members of

the ASIP, right? And I forgot to tell you what ASIP was. That’s the group that after a vaccine is approved, the CDC

panel recommends its use. And the reason why that’s important is that controls

who pays for the vaccines. So ASIP, if the CDC does not recommend a vaccine for

use, even though it’s gone through the whole process and the FDA has approved it, there’s a manufacturer and

everything is ready to roll. Typically insurance won’t if it’s not on the list,

right? And and and medical providers might not prescribe it even though it’s approved and fully and safe, etc. So,

this is a true perversion of the system. It hasn’t hit yet. So, you know, with

rare exceptions, it hasn’t hit. You have a third question.

I would also check out Voices for Vacation,

parents who are very much in favor of vaccines and it includes on the website

talking points for exactly the situation we’re talking about. So that parents who

were talking to other parents vaccine hesitant can know

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don’t work on herpes, but it is a it is a tough one. I don’t know

if you have any any sense of this.

Yes.

Are going to be significantly There’s some thought that

may get taken over byporations

and and so thinking about like how can we communicate

how you elegantly did very step by step in a very way

what what do companies actually take the risk? Right. Right. You put it exactly right.

What a company wants to know what the risk is and what the benefit is financially and everything else. You

can’t blame them for that. Right. So here’s the answer. There’s one of many answers to that. Um in science we are

perfectly comfortable saying a I don’t know or b it didn’t work. Okay? And this

is hard stuff. So I made it seem like oh we’re the structure and we can make a vaccine and it works. No. Um, and so the

the farther along a a a discovery is toward application, the more likely it

is a company will want to pick it up, right? Want to and that’s huge, right? That is really, really helpful. Clinical

trials are super expensive, right? And if the federal government isn’t going to fund it, occasionally a company will

fund it if they see a potential profit down the road, if they have patent protection, etc. But all the work that

goes on under the behind the scenes or before that, you know, a huge portion of that is failure quote unquote, which we

learn from and we publish and other people read our work and they know what not to do and they know, you know, what tends to work. And so it is simply that

discovery is not a linear process. and the support that one gets from the

federal government which does not require a profit to be shown at the end of the day to keep a program going. What

the federal government looks for is are you learning something right? That’s what’s needed and there’s just no

substitute for that. I’ve heard from

a billion dollars to bring a drug to market is a good estimate.

They’ve been working on

question.

Everyone’s heard of GLP1s. Gula monster. They were looking at an

animal and noticed and then they messed with it and they fuss with it and they were like, “What can we use this for?”

And then they start. So if I take a word, does that mean

Does that mean

any other not falling asleep? I really appreciate it.

Falling asleep. I really appreciate it. Let’s think.

My name is Kippy Hagen and I run an organization.

I run an organization that is called the vaccine dinner club. So if you are

interested in anything in vaccines, we have about 5,000 members around the world located at Emory University and we

have uh meetings these days by Zoom.

to talk about all things vaccine. Our next meeting will be in se to talk about

all things vaccine. Our next meeting will be in September September the 3rd

and it’ll be talking about for the big one. what we have learned and what we should have learned. Just Google vaccine

dinner. Look at how to join because if you join your list and you’ll get information

when you do look at our website don’t look at the calendar.

Will you ever meet in person? We we hope so. Uh we hope so. meeting

that has as many people as usually $10 cost more money than universities have right now. So our motto is hot food cool

science count in right now you’re going to need to provide your own hot food

while watching us. Thank you very much

and as I promised all the slides are now up on the screen so please take

advantage of that. Um, and apparently it doesn’t continue. Everything on this is on our website.

Um, we really do appreciate you coming out, especially at a night like this. It finally wasn’t super hot, so that was

nice to be outside for. Um, thank you once again. Um and again next week we’ll

be at Wild Heaven Togo