oh look at that interns we’re live now great all right
hi everyone thank you for coming to the science of choice I am Amy Sharma I’m
the executive director of science for Georgia so we’re really pleased that y all are here today um thanks for coming uh what was
what was I going to say a huge thank you to mutation brewing for hosting us here in this lovely Speaky that was very nice
of them and thanks to Jason for being here uh so before I introduce our
speaker I’m going to tell you a little bit about science for Georgia uh we were founded in
2018 because we think that science should be getting out of this lab and
onto the streets um to get things done so we do that in three ways um and we’re
creating change in Georgia through science um three ways we do this we improve communication among scientists
and the public so we go to various universities and colleges around Georgia
and we teach uh professional um and Technical students how to communicate
their science we also want to increase public engagement with science so by you all
being here tonight you are helping us fulfill our mission uh basically we do
that in three ways we have Georgia science Junction um we have climate survival training uh hosted by Michael
back there with the camera and then we do science standup comedy on a pretty
regular basis um which is super fun and so um and and our newest program is
humor me where we have combined our science communication training with our
standup comedy training into professional development workshops um so people can make their PowerPoints more
eligable during the workday uh so that’s a please see me if you’d like to learn
more about that and finally we advocate for the responsible use of Science and public
policy so we go down to the Georgia General Assembly um every year when it’s
in session and we explain science to our
legislators it’s uh very interesting job and it’s a lot of swimming Upstream but
we’ve made a lot of great strides uh we’ve had some progress in terms of how
literacy is taught in this state and also in helping with a lot of
conservation efforts around the Oki Fini swamp and things like illegal sludge
dumping and a lot of things that you didn’t think that I would have to be explaining but I still am um and so our
biggest event of the year is our environmental justice and climate protection conference which is coming up
in mid June and we’re very excited exed about this this is where we bring together uh um change makers and
Community Advocates and academics to talk about how we can make an impact right now in the state of
Georgia um so we’d love for you to get involved we’re super excited that you’re here um thank you so much for being here
and for joining us um so please come check us out and now I’m going to
introduce our speaker I’m going to pull up my notes uh I would like to thank Jason quinley for being here uh he has
been coming to science for Georgia events for a while we’ve been talking about having this event for a good three
years now I think so I’m really excited that it finally got off the ground uh
Jason is the president of the Georgia data science Association he helps run
multiple data science meetups around the state um so it’s really exciting to bring two meetup groups together to do
something cool um he is an associate at afflac global Ventures yes the one with the
duck uh he’s their director of The Venture Labs program so they’re
combining startup Tech with the industry leader in Insurance um and he has a huge interest
in cooperation and competition um so in college at
ug um go dogs uh sorry yeah let’s get a go
dogs uh he was a wrestler a linguist and
in politics which I feel that are kind of all the same but all very different
um so that is how he generated his interest in cooperation and competition
so we’re very excited that he is here on primary day to talk to us about Game
Theory and rank Choice V voting so huge thank you to Jason Woo
pulling up the uh the meet up page I think it’s it’s all one of your
tabs there and then we’ll go to the slides there yeah the biotech is y
we
go what’s up guys yeah and and I guess I can jump in here is is is that all right
yeah all right all right all right guys yeah welcome
everyone um we were uh discussing someone asked uh we’re talking about data and uh it being boring and you know
in the in the data science Association we say we went into the field because we didn’t have the personality to be
accountants so want to thank all you for coming um I’m just
going to show uh two of our data science uh chapters uh this is the Columbus
one it’s the Columbus uh Georgia data science Association and that’s our next
event with a posto from Auburn leading it uh Auburn University’s near Columbus Georgia if you’ve never been been there
got a Scenic downtown uh Riverwalk so that’s uh love for y’all to join that or or tell people
and then our uh on the left maybe yep uh this is our Flagship chapter in Atlanta
uh the data science board members if we can change it to the business analytics and data science Society because the
acronym would be badass they said no it’s all all right
that’s how it goes um we yeah we can go to the slides but we’ love for you’all to join um we have a mix of social
events and Technical events um and great to see several of our members here um so
uh yeah love for you to join and I guess I’ll say this about our group we connect ideas we connect people
not just to each other but to the people they’ll be five years from now and I found out about a job uh at
afflac through our data science meet up in Columbus when I was a political consultant and now to be leading it and
help other people find careers uh has been pretty gratifying so love for y’all to join um and uh yeah so that’s what’s
going on there yeah we we can uh you can find us on meetup.com or the Meetup
app all right right cool so if you’ve ever lived in Indiana
you may know that on a day like today a primary day bars are not allowed to
serve alcohol until the polls have closed uh and if you live in Georgia and
you looked at our choices today in the primary you may want want to drink so
you realize there’s a there’s a lot of sales tax revenue they’re not kidding right um so one thing that uh I think of
voting voting is just a way that groups come together and make decisions does politics include voting
yes but uh other areas do too and I got inspired by reading uh Ray Doo’s
principles and Ray Doo manages uh Bridgewater the uh biggest hedge fund
out there with uh over I think four trillion in assets on management something like that
and uh he lost everything in the 80s and he realized it was because as the quote
dictator CEO making investment decisions shouldn’t be up to one person you should
ideally aggregate the preferences opinions expertise of your entire
organization and that’s what got him into this idea of do we have an idea
meritocracy do the best ideas win do you have a culture where disagree agreements
can come together and get something better out in the end so as a researcher uh at the
University of tuban and uh and Beyond uh I researched Game Theory this is like
the mathematics of decisions or mathematics of cooperation and
competition it’s where incentives meet environments and where they meet
outcomes and a strange offshoot of that happened I taught at my alma mater uh Brookstone
school in Columbus Georgia and there created the first game theory course for high schoolers uh Nationwide to my
knowledge now what surprised me was that we got to a chapter on
voting and the the students loved it and I I just maybe because I’m into the kind
of competition side or or who knows it just really surprised me but I think because high schoolers had just really
never thought like wait we they’re you know they’re this age where they’re about to start making decisions right on
their own and especially being able to to legally vote and oh
god what the adults do maybe could lead to bad outcomes right and we and we see
this uh today when you think about today uh in the state primary about 177% of
Georgians are out there voting today maybe maybe some of you did maybe some of you made a better decision and came
here uh but it’s strange that only that small percentage of our population is is
really making choices for the entire group so to go to data what do you do in
in data right you really are asking what is the best representative of the data
set now if you said what number represents the how many kids people have
right A lot of people would say well the average family has 2.3 children it’s like no they don’t all right no one has
three of a child all right even if they go to Alabama and maybe don’t consider them fully a member of the
family but really you want to ask a different kind of question you’re actually asking
is there a number that has a good Common Sense representation of uh what’s in that
underlying data sometimes it’s the mode sometimes it’s the median sometimes it’s
it’s uh the mean or or the weighted average sometimes it’s Michael here we go so we
want to say what is the best representation of the underlying data and if you think about it that’s what
voting does right what is the best option that would represent what a group
wants to do this could be in politics or it could also be uh it could also be in
just any anything you know everyone who’s a shareholder of a company has to vote on who should be the uh on the
board all right or you may want to vote as a group where do we go for the office uh holiday
party so I’ll discuss a little bit of Game Theory and then go into some alternatives to voting systems and then
discuss a little bit some of the bad news and uh then we’ll wrap up um if you got questions feel free to to raise your
hand and we can go from there all right all right it’s going to be interactive we’re jumping right into the math or I
hope you’re not scared of numbers too much
I want you to imagine two boxers Rocky and Apollo
Creed that are evenly matched in a fight for $6 million they have the option of fighting
clean or taking a drug that will give them a guaranteed Victory if the other
does not use it so let’s pause and see where the numbers come from
the the meet up so hot the fire alarm went off all
right maybe they don’t the back they’re like no numbers no numbers okay so where
do the numbers come from uh if you’re splitting a $6 million purse evenly matched you would expect to get three
million right it’s like a coin flip all right now Rocky the row player
in other words I’m looking at the row
if the row player choose chooses to take the drug they would get 6 minus one or five
million versus the column which is the second entry the second entry would
expect to get zero and vice versa if they both took the
drug they would expect to get three minus one or two cool someone stop me
there stop me there okay so the first number is the row out outcome and the
second number is the columns outcome okay now we’re about to have a
little activity in just a second you’re going to close your eyes and we will see what
you would do if you were the boxers okay would you fight clean or dirty in other
words would you take drugs or not okay yes
I should definitely not not definitely not
definitely not okay so you’re I see your did your homework here okay all
right okay so in just a second I I’ll have you close your eyes uh and you will raise your hand as to which one you
would do all right just we’re just making only only base on what what these numbers say here
only only based on what these numbers say here yep just based on and you’ll imagine no one will
know you’re only based on just the the financial outcome here okay all right
close your eyes on three one two three if you would fight clean raise
your hand okay put them down if you would
fight dirty and take the drugs if you’ve used the drugs raise your hand okay everyone open your
eyes all right I’m seeing some of the hands go down right okay so what we saw
and now now here’s where we come to the the bad news um we either have a lot of
good math students or unethical people in the room about two-thirds of you um and I
like to see what people will do with their hand and you know I didn’t I didn’t see as many retractions a lot of times when when I’ve I’ve done this
you’ll see a lot of people start to retract their hand not just because it feels like the the demo is over but oh
God I don’t want to be seen as someone who would exploit someone else right so this scenario is called the prisoners
dilemma if you fight clean it’s better for me to fight dirty I’ll get five
versus three if you fight dirty it’s better better for me to fight dirty because
I’ll get two versus zero but you’re thinking the same
thing this is a situation from which no one would deviate on their own this is
what economists call an equilibrium State this is why you don’t need laws to
tell people to not drive on the left side of the road right any one wakes up and say oh I’ll get i’ll get to work
earlier if I drive in the left right but you do need laws to prevent
people from well maybe not prevent but discourage people from
speeding because the equilibrium State on the highway is to speed it’s the same
as the drugs right it’s better for me to get ahead of you to save 10 minutes to work
uh and if you’re speeding it’s also better for me to to stay even with you cool all right what about
voting so maybe you want to hold an office holiday party somewhere where do you want to to go
imagine this is the poll results mutation Brewing Gate City
Brewing or that Kroger with the disco ball okay I mean could have a party
there still right okay oh is the disco ball
gone well they they partied too hard they burned it down yeah we’ll have to find a new place yeah you know so if you
look at this poll who wins
a lot of people would say that the Disco Kroger should win why why is
that has a plurality which means they have more votes than anyone
else does there seem to be something wrong with
this okay oh that’s right do they not add
100 yeah better is that yeah okay boy I was going
to say better call Ug take my math degree away that was GNA laugh if that was true
um you know the Georgia Tech guy would have um but what okay what seems to be
wrong oh okay so so the the winner is actually dispreferred by a majority what
else seems to be wrong someone else I think said it categorically yeah there’s there seems
to be something in common with the two options that were lower ranked right and
it’s that they are very similar to each other well seems like the system we have
for the primaries in fact that often occurs in our political parties may lead to outcomes like this
where you have an outcome that wins even though it’s dispreferred by the majority and the majority may have some
other qualitative similarity that they actually prefer in in some of the other
candidates so one reason that I think uh Game Theory should be taught more and I love that it’s taught in the AP
microeconomics curriculum in high school so this is actually really good if you got a a son or daughter grandson
granddaughter um me how often do you use calculus every day now I know the the
some folks say well you really you know you’re optimizing and but as far as uh
understanding human behavior as far as understanding um biology uh any dynamic
system where things interact uh you don’t really use a ton of algebra no one’s drawing up parabolas and and
hyperbolas and stuff uh all that much but would it be better if students
graduated high school maybe with an understanding of of the math behind Behavior or the math behind some
reasoning I would say so I see some heads nodding so maybe you would agree too so I would love to see more types of
math like Game Theory uh and voting in in the High School
curriculum we we kind of mentioned some of these examples and I I’ll I’ll move forward and there’s a lot we can go into
some of those topics too if you want okay going to show another game from
Game Theory or a table this is our old friend rock paper scissors right from the the
schoolyard so a game theorist would represent rock paper scissors like so so
if the row player plays Rock they lose a point if the column player plays
paper cool and and so forth I think we all know rock paper
scissors now you can scan this table the way we did with the prisoners dilemma
and you might start moving around like if I play
rock and they play Paper well oh maybe I would change and maybe I would play scissors to get one point and they would
change and so forth there is no stable equilibrium in this system the only way to optimize rock
paper scissors is I’ll play randomly and you’ll play
randomly this is what some people call a zero sum scenario and zero sum you may
have heard in reference to our politics because often uh political parties will treat it
especially in a two-party race as if you losing means I’m
winning this the logic of Zero Sum uh some our veterans may have heard the phrase uh deception is the Hallmark of
warfare right that’s what zero sum is so if that’s the case there is no
cooperation possible and you should be as deceptive and and tricky as as you should as you
could um for the scientists who who are for who would say are scient who would say scientists in the room I’m just kind
of curious got a few who’s who’s got a little biology background all right got a few I I think
you’ll like this rock paper scissors is not just confined to the schoolyard um
for the biologists uh it pops up in the spotted lizards of uh the Southern
United States and Mexico in their mating strategies so I know I
know you’re now it doesn’t mean like rock paper scissors uh hey you mate with the ugly one right okay what it means is
uh sorry that was funny in my mind um what it means is the lizards have
phenotypes expressions of their genes that will make them display different behaviors some of them will play Big
Daddy and try to get a big T territory and have multiple mates like a lot like like a gorilla would um some will try to
play Casanova and sneak in on Big Daddy’s territory and walk off with one of his mates and others will play Family
Man and be monogamous uh and would therefore outcompete the the Casanova style uh for
that that kind of commitment if one phenotype appears in the population out
of that one-third split uh then you’ll see a reshuffling in the genetic
profiles in the Next Generation that will tend back toward that one-third split so I I find it fascinating um if
anyone watches mixed martial arts you would also see a similar uh dynamic
between wrestling Jiu-Jitsu and and kickboxing but we won’t go into
that so this idea uh that we looked at with Rocky and Apollo is uh what game theorists call
the prisoners dilemma uh one version of it is as
described choosing whether to cooperate with the police or defect on each other
to rat each other out and here is this equilibrium State
we discussed uh biologists also have and and economists have looked at this in
the idea of benefits versus costs so there’s a certain cost that cooperation
entails uh and there’s a certain benefit you get when others cooperate I hope as
you’re seeing this you’re realizing like the the idea of the prisoners dilemma is everywhere it’s everywhere right maybe
it’s recycling right maybe it’s being nice to your neighbor uh maybe it’s uh
being honest right uh so all these things are things that that take
effort now feels a little depressing right you
clearly see that that three is more than two right is there a way out of this and the
answer is yes and this is a whole literature called the evolution of
cooperation uh one idea is that uh direct reciprocity requires a face
indirect reciprocity requires a name so how do we
benefit from someone else’s cooperation well you may want to see them again in
other words if you interact with them again this is why like teenagers are jerks at the beach right teenagers are
jerks anyways but at the beach right more because you they know they’ll never see the whatever the the hot dog vendor
again right and they’ll run off right without paying stuff like that so that’s one uh what about having a
name the way that you benefit from someone else’s cooperation is also having a name that you can track and
this is why you’ll see even sites like uh eBay or Uber what are they do right
they have a like a star system right oh I’ve got an Uber festar rating that means your cooperative and your name has
maintain that reputation cool there’s a great simulation on the website of Nikki case
uh I highly encourage uh go on to Nikki’s website and we could go through that a long time but but we won’t cool
check that out so the theme we’ve seen so far is
that there is some tension between the incentives for us individually and the outcomes for
Capital us collectively and a question I often have
to ask right are we only as moral as our options are that that’s a big question to ask
you know and of course this is you know why did Tiger Woods have affairs but you know my overweight broke neighbor Bob
didn’t right you
know let’s go back to our Brewing example
here so we saw we saw there was something wrong with the picture and the thing that was wrong is that there is
what they call a spoiler effect so there is this phenomenon that occurs that when
two choices are similar to each other they are likely to steal each other’s
votes this is and and we could maybe discuss a little later but even now in
our presidential race right a popular candidate is Robert F Kennedy and now
there’s even question and the polls are very interesting because whose votes is he stealing Biden voters or or Trump
voters and that’s a real big area of controversy and and I mean probably make a lot of money as a consultant if you
could figure that out um do we are we able to go to the
site can I click or or I can can I do that you say no I know we’re gonna find
out we’re gonna find out hey hey so this is another uh animation
from Nikki case and I really love Nikki’s work um on building a a better
ballot and to to not go too far into it but I’ll just kind of scroll down um you
can imagine I really really like this animation
here
that you can imagine all these dots are the voters right all these dots are the
voters now let’s go scientific for a minute a minute you know how people say oh you know a politician should Trend
toward the center to win what is the c does it mean the center of the
issue or is it maybe more to think like every
voter is a point in some kind of dimensional space maybe it’s 2D 3D 17d
who knows depends on the issues right maybe one issue is uh school choice
another issue is is uh the trash schedule whatever it is and there’s some Continuum along that
that choice what your preferences are each issue you add adds a new dimension
to the system so if you say go towards the center in a a certain sense you’re
talking about the center of gravity if you think of each little point in the
space kind of like a a a little body in in uh not in orbit but
like a body in space with its gravitational pull cool so what happens here is if you
have two candidates maybe they’re they’re pretty close to evenly split here and as you introduce a third
candidate notice what’s going on there as this third candidate gets
closer to the triangle they start splitting splitting each other’s votes and then what do you
have right an overwhelming majority for the the square right there all right
cool and you can play around with that animation but I really love it because it helps you also see that the voters
are in a certain sense like centers of gravity cool all right GNA go back to uh
Amy how do I go back to I’m I’m on a PDF
oh let’s find out ah now the hexagon wins right because the hexagon is closest to the center of
gravity I mean yeah I mean her uh stuff is really interesting
yeah yep yep we’ll go back to the PDF hey thank you all right cool highly
encourage you to check that out to to see a little visual
there all right
n all right hey hey okay because you were thinking enough of the pictures
let’s do some more math okay let’s do it so I want you to imagine that we’ve got
a bunch of people choosing among some options a b and c whatever
they are and here are the different people’s choices and in this case they’re going
to rank their choices now I should probably cover that
up if you’ve got three options how many possible orderings are
there there are six right three for the First Choice
times two for the second choice * 1 for the third in math class they called this factorial so if I’ve got four choices
I’ve got four * 3 * 2 * 1 okay it’s not an infinite number right and it’s still
a computer Microsoft Excel could add this up pretty quickly now from all of these different
ballots where folks might rank their choices then we get what’s called a
preference schedule so there are only six possible uh rankings in the pref
preference schedule ABC ACB and and so forth so let’s see how one of them came
about for instance how many times does ABC appear it appears with
n and with Eve so that’s two how many times does uh CBA appear I
really hope I did this right here uh Tim Ron and Dan for instance okay how many
times does uh BAC appear well don’t drink too much and hopefully your blood
alcohol content will be not too high okay so based on that we could have a preference
schedule and that’s the the notation that I’m going to use here now let’s
imagine we want to say hey where do you want to go for a vacation we’re trying to pick with the the church group or or
whoever so imagine we’ve got Atlanta Boston Chicago and
Denver here are four types of rankings that might occur
we’re going to pretend for ease of computation that we’re not going through all 24 cool okay but that these are the
four that emerged so for instance six people picked Boston Atlanta Chicago Denver
cool y’all stop me stop if okay so one
popular alternative uh ranked Choice voting system is called instant runoff
and so the idea is drop the last place uh person or person
or or Choice do doesn’t have to be person again right could be like where what city do we go to and add up the
rest so in this case we can see that a had the lowest number of First Place
votes throw the bombs out is what I would tell my students right throw the bombs out so throw the least preferred
out so if we eliminated a now there is a new set of orderings
right now what I want you to notice is that two of them have the ranking of b c
and then d b c and then D so what will we do we
would add those up and we’d have 11 5 plus 6 for
those so we’ve got 11 with b c and d and then the same process again and we would
just iterate that now it kind of feels like a lot to keep in your head but realize this is a computer doing this
again like Excel or whatever program or computer code it it’s pretty
deterministic Josh
say that again that’s a great question that’s
another system so there’s another system I think some people call it star voting or approval voting where a lot like like
a a a Yelp restaurant review you could
say you know candidate a five stars candidate B four star candidate B one
star star because that might represent the scale of your preference yeah that’s
another system which I’m not covering but yeah
yeah so in this case uh we see that uh C has the lowest number of First Place
votes so C is thrown out D B followed by d uh has 11 votes here
and seven votes there so now we’re down to two candidate race which just majority
wins this is a um should I go into controversy all right okay just I would
love if all of you checked out the website at science of Georgia where they discussed uh that actually in the State
House of Georgia um instant runoff voting is uh being put to a
motion uh to be disallowed in the
state um I don’t you know and it’s I’ll say this it’s actually a little irony
the uh probably the most famous runoff we’ve had
recently likely would have res resulted in Hershel Walker winning against rapael
waro um this is ironic and that herel Walker’s party is actually against or
the gentleman from hersel Walker’s party has posi posed to disallow inet runoff
had Georgia had inet runoff Walker probably would have won but the uh demographics of the runoff vote were
different right than than what was in the general election so that’s an an example because we had a popular
Governor you could see in the numbers there so um but check out science of Georgia’s
uh page and they actually detail uh some of what’s going on there so inet runoff
has come under some fire for for some
reason what’s another system uh it’s called the board account so this is just
a point system this is like What’s Done in college football with like the uh AP
pole so what do they do you give a a number of points to the first
place one fewer for second one few over third and on down so in this case uh if
I look at a so a would get three
points for the five first place votes two points for each of the six
second place votes and one point for the seven thirdd Place votes and so
forth add all those up uh and then you would get you would get your winner so this is just a point system
okay now notice a second ago B1 the insert
runoff and I will say if you look back who was eliminated first it was
a in this case b wins but notice uh a
was not last place here okay so it’s every rank Choice vote
system could produce a different set of outcomes and this is also relevant
because a lot of times you know we probably remember as well we our constitution used to do it right our
vice president used to be the second place vote getter right Aaron bur right
famous for that and so forth so uh if you needed to elect multiple
officers again these rank Choice voting systems would also allow you to to uh
deliver a hierarchy cool that’s usually pretty easy to
explain the third system and I’ll say my students often like this system is pair wise comparison so this is like what the
Oscars does where they match up each movie or
actor I don’t know who who are SM uh denel Washington and and Matthew MCC and
I don’t know Ryan Reynolds and and they match them up and Brad Pit and right and see which actor is preferred
to the other one so how does that system work so if I
want to compare uh a versus B I would see there are five votes where
a outranks b there are seven eight and six votes
where B outranks A and I hope you can see that and I just count plus or minus
for each one so there are five votes Plus for a and there are seven eight and
six against a when compared to B so a is down by 14 which would give you that b
wins whereas another example if I looked at B versus
C so B is above C for five
ballots B is below C for seven and eight ballots and then for or six more ballots
B is above C overall B is down to C by
four so C would win after going through all that you see okay well how many
matchups how many matchups this is like round robin play right in sports right or in the Olympics uh you’ll see that
how many matchups did each of the candidates win well looks like
C won three matches so C would be declared the Victor so in a direct
comparison of C versus the other candidates Choice C if we’re going on a
trip Chicago would win in each of those matchups my students often like this uh
system because they they felt it kind of captured intuition about what people prefer to others now for the math folks
how many possibilities are there and I’m going to say that right
there are six why are there
six so why are there six pairs well there are four candidates for the first slot there
are three for the next slot but we’re choosing pairs so we’re not going to count
twice we don’t count a b versus ba so we’re going to divide that by two this
is in your high school statistics course uh may have called it uh combinations
combinations and permutations if you remember uh that or choosing so four
choose two so if we had uh 10 candidates
you’d have 10 * 9 divided two so 45
cool all right so what we saw in in the these
cases and and you kind of start to think about uh how the math is working that different candidates might win different
methods um if we just did straight
plurality on who got the most votes then D would have won you notice here at the end of all
the ballots D was top of the ballot for the largest
group and bottom of the ballot for the majority
right this is probably reminiscent uh of the 2016
primary don’t figur that out all right it was accidental that was D but you
figured it out okay um and this is right led to a lot of consternation right among among Republicans who’ have been
said oh well maybe we’re not counting votes right what about instant runoff uh where
we did the the drop and AD type procedure we saw that b survived and if you kind of look at look
at the weight imagine like the weight like the Top Line being like a gravitational pole
do you see how B is kind of toward the top there and a lot of ballots all right The Bard count B also
one there uh and pairwise for matchups uh C1 and you can
again kind of look at it I look at just seeing C above uh
other choices in in several areas so so it’s funny um Amy and I were discussing
this the other day uh because we’re about to get at some bad news and she said oh so this maybe means that the
candidates closest to the center always win a rank Choice it seems natural again
we talked about Center what does Center mean right it is like the gravitational pole of the voting system uh
but it’s not really that right in some of the systems it’s candidates with a broad
appeal right like are you everyone’s second place you know so you could almost think of it like are you
minimizing unhappiness all right um and other
systems that might be uh just having constituencies where you are above and then forget the rest right
so this also happens so there’s not a um there’s not a broad way you could say
this is how you want to rank Choice voting system because every system rewards different kind of mathematical
properties
uh that’s really so what she asked is uh kind of
similar to our runoff system if you took the top two vote Getters and then what you’re saying is
uh reallocate the votes for the other candidates are their system do that sure
certainly are and they’re similar to the instant runoff system in in this case
you’re keeping the top two versus eliminating the bot eliminating from the
bottom right now the way that you’re I have to think about this for a
second so to do any kind of counting system you need a a deterministic process right you need an
unambiguous word as each new vote go
so yep and I think I think that does something similar to the inset runoff
but the the there may be a subtlety that that is not fully obvious right now but
but I think it’s also an intuitive and and kind of what we’re seeing is the systems I presented are not the
only systems just as Josh mentioned earlier there are a whole host of other
voting systems and that actually brings us to our next point so this is really
good because sometimes these systems can fail intuition you can look at this example
and is the Bear right the bear with the B so the bearer if it was just majority
vote would win 3 to2 but in a point
system the bear would lose to the alligator because the alligator has this
this broad appeal of second place votes
right so even a little subtlety here you could design a voting system like
majority rule first and if there is no majority then you
would go further down and it seemed funny because I think uh Chase Oliver who uh is associate of mine was a
Libertarian candidate in the Walker warau race and I was hoping he would come out um we could pick on him um but
you know you really see that uh you could design a system with a majority
rule and then an alternative so you wouldn’t for some people would argue you wouldn’t waste State money stuff like
that just as the stone said You Can’t Always
Get What You Want again what do instant runoff systems sometimes do they may eliminate the
candidate most close to the political center of gravity and why is that well
they may be the second choice of a highly committed uh whatever
the things are so now we’re going to get into uh a
little bit uh deeper stuff here here are some criteria that I’ll
say mathematicians political scientists economists say that a voting system should
have so majority rule right we just saw that with the beer example majority rule
should should win out a pairwise candidate should
win right if you if the population prefers whatever Brad Pit to every other
actor then Brad Pit should win the Oscar uh the irrelevance of independent
uh Alternatives so if you threw new candidates into the race it wouldn’t change the order in which if you
prefer ipas to psers and I threw in a sour beer that shouldn’t change your
preference for ipas over pills and and transitivity so you ought
to be able to deliver some kind of hierarchy at the
end you shouldn’t have some kind of cyclical pattern like rock paper
scissors where each candidate was beating the other well here’s the bad
news so Kenneth arrow in 1957 in a Nobel prize winning
work discovered what they call really was before then but but he uh was awarded for the impossibility
theorem which says if you have three or more
options for any vote there is
no perfect or no way to make a voting system without compromising one of these
principles there’s no way to make a voting system system without compromising principles like these that
seem to be common sense so if you have three or more
options there’s no good way to choose I’ll say no good I say good there’s
no nonparadoxical way to choose but we could just say good all right here’s
we’re gonna go deep now how many voting systems do we just discuss
well that’s right well that’s what the The Bard there was the bard of death you know
um it’s at least four well that’s getting to it right so
how do you choose the best voting system how do you right how do you
choose the best right exactly how do you choose the best rank Choice voting system you need to rank the rank Choice
voting systems but how do you choose which way to rank those you need to rank the way to rank
the rank Choice voting systems yeah so uh there is actually a mathematical
Paradox when you got three or more options there’s no good way to choose there’s not even a good way to choose
how to choose okay and it’s not surprising right that’s why we end up with something like this uh paralysis by
analysis in our democracy uh because choosing is difficult it does require
compromise so we’ve seen a little bit that cooperation is fragile the incentives for individuals matter in how
a group may turn out things like repeat interaction reputation voting these are
some of the ways that we can solve some of these Cooperative
dilemmas question of voting systems is are we picking the best or the I’ll put
it this way the right right Representatives you know uh as HL M said democracy is a theory that uh every man
knows what he wants and he deserves to get it good and hard so this is uh what maybe we’re
seeing uh with voting systems it could could be or do we have bad politicians
well maybe or maybe we have a bad selection process and that may be
different right what does that say about how we view the other side
as lesser as evil are we going to satisfy the greater good if we have
systems that promote lesser of two evils uh and ovon bismar of course is
famous for saying uh the less people know about how laws and sausage are made the better so you’ve heard right to make
the sausage requires compromise of things that maybe no one would want uh but they have to be put in there so
there are compromises you have to make to make a voting system uh there there is no perfect system and I think kind of
the sooner we uh get over the the perfect being the enemy the good we we
might end up with that greater good so thankful to all of you uh thankful to
our members uh from Atlanta Society for data science and business intelligence and thankful Amy Patrick uh for helping
put all this together
[Applause]
need that beer
okay should I repeat it so there are four principles and I’m
curious if we like I’m personally not maybe convinced that the majority rule
is super important um and I’m just curious like if we leave one of them behind does the story
change essentially so the question is how how important is the majority rule
uh you could argue this is actually baked into our constitution right um things like the way the Senate’s chosen
versus the House of Representatives uh right that defies majority rule in a sense some people get mad about it you
could look at the uh the powers that like cities have right they have the majority of the citizens and uh money in
a population but we also have these countermeasures uh in our democracy that
seem to also just like you said they attempt to prevent the
tyranny of the majority so yeah that is a question if I go to the science a little bit I think
the way that majority rule also seems uh implicit is this is how
physical systems work right if you have the majority of weight on one side of a system it’s
going to lean to that system lean to that to that side just in a real simple like two-dimensional example so I think
it’s interesting but should we base our systems of
governing human behavior around the already
present scientific principles we know that question but I think a lot of people would say in maybe yes so
majority rule works in the like I said in in the physical universe so I think that’s why people are just kind of
naturally attached to
it oh yeah it’s fine so you mentioned the
uh I guess there’s a vote coming about uh
uh what you call it instant runoff yeah I think is it how is it House Bill 105
is I could be wrong yeah Amy better my my question is so there’s this vote
coming up in our legislature about instant runoff my question is more of uh
about that or rank Choice voting ever coming to Georgia or anywhere else
doesn’t it it would seem to me that any incumbent would be the one that feels
most threatened by rank Choice voting versus what’s happening today is that a
fair assessment yes and Amy do you want to comment on the bill
itself yeah so this is where the Game Theory comes in so one uh political money is like these steroids of politics
right we’d all agree that that money could be spent elsewhere building Bridges or whatever buying beer right
but it gets funneled into politics which we’d all you a lot of people would say well that’s an
inefficient uh allocation of the money um so that’s that’s one exactly the
point of who makes the decision to make the laws but the people
who might be threatened by the institution of a new law and
I think the way to say it is this it’s not that the law the law does
you could say threaten individuals it actually threatens the equilibrium and this is why it’s so hard
to get stuck and and you know to go a little further into Politics the Nancy Pelosi need the Mitch
McConnells or whatever figure you want to say because they have a villain to raise funds
against um so something like a ranked Choice system which could promotee
either a a third party candidate or maybe just change the way that the primary votes go uh could threaten the
people who are making the laws themselves so now the question is how do you get around that and that’s things
like reputation as I mentioned earlier reputation can enhance like the Uber five star
rating right can enhance the chances for getting a a a Cooperative outcome to
emerge so for instance if there’s maybe more data on how politicians are voting
uh or acting that may help now I I can’t solve all that but that’s that’s just
one
thought so this is all kind of I voted today I don’t know how most of the local
judges and school board members stand on the issues because I don’t have full
information on their stand on uh their platform and stuff because it’s not
easily publicly available so if you made those here’s my
thing if you made those platforms and policy uh uh positions easily publicly
available like everywhere uh how would that change the outcome of those rank Choice voting
because uh you have a lot of Voters that are they’re they’re making this decision B based on
intelligence and that’s that’s I think in local races local and state races that’s a real problem right and in the
the bad news or sad truth is it may not right and and I know and I even retract
for a second here I mentioned R and we gone a little bit into the politics of of the modern era but this is for any
organization so this could you know rank Choice voting could be used for any or like we mentioned going on a trip uh how
you make investment decisions so this could be for anything but um yeah I don’t think we know how um perfect
information system like if every politician had a website and and so forth and a lot of it is again that that
uh Cooperative dilemma uh and kind of a feedback mechanism of it takes popularity to get
popular to get that uh the word out on on what you’re doing
so I know that’s a disappointing answer okay oh wait did you want me to answer the question on the bill yeah yeah yeah
uh so um the legislative session has ended and that bill um I believe died so
I can double check on that so we lived tonight fight another day on rank Choice
voting uh I looked at that bill and that bill was to ban rank Choice voting unless it was
implemented everywhere in the state they were basically trying to make sure that for a presidential election because
they’re all run by the different Co counties they were trying to make sure that if Cobb County chose a rank Choice
voting system and fton County did not that would really screw things up so
they were saying it’s either kind of all or none because that was I was giving someone a hard time about the rank Choice voting Bill and they’re like no
actually it was just to make sure it was either all or none um and so but the
other thing that has been noted is it has become Maine has rank Choice voting
and a and Alaska um and so um it’s interesting but the reason it’s starting
to Bubble Up more is because more and more people that are in power are becoming out primaried and I think they
realized that this would be because again if you go back to that thing with the B’s and the A’s and the D’s or
whatever um keep going keep going keep going keep going um one of these
whatever just give me that go go down one more sorry this one here so you see
D was the most popular here and everybody else d was the least popular
this is the scenario you get when you have a very polarizing candidate right like a bunch of people show up for D
that are like super excited about D and then great choice of d by the way um and
so but then everybody else was like please God anyone but D um and so I
think they’ve started so that’s part of the reason it’s gaining popularity around the country is people are starting to see that in the primaries
when this situation arises that you end up with a very polarizing candidate that is either unelectable or just crazy
pants um we don’t have that in Georgia we don’t have any crazy pants people
representing Us in Georgia but yeah it’s just like the anchovies on pizza type thing y
um earlier you were talking about um everything going towards the center uh
more or less leaning towards the center which it seems like that often happens but would wouldn’t often in some cases
the center be the worse position because then you’re not pleasing everybody be um because like the people are so polarized
that like they’ll both hate you for that Center position so it’s better to get pick one of the extreme positions
it could be and that’s that’s actually as you as we saw like here um right almost like the physics of an instant
runoff system would eliminate that Centrist candidate in that case so you
know again I would say it depends on the issue right but often again it’s how the sausage is made right that to get some
sometimes a bill passed through you end up getting the worst of of Both Worlds um and this that’s legislatively but
again it could be um you know it’s whenever HR picks something to happen at your company
right it’s always the worst of Both Worlds because they like well let’s not offend you know the the IT program or
whatever you know and it’s like it ends up being terrible mandatory fun type thing so yeah all right two more
questions sorry HR people but being really on the nose here
but there it feels like there is a prisoners Dilemma to stay in majority uh
yes and then there’s a spoiler effect and all the rank Choice voting how the heck do we get out of
that very hard question yeah yeah um and I’ll even we could even back up uh you
know again maybe what we have is what we
deserve right maybe you know you know um and again HL M had you know had this uh
the American people will be perfectly happy to elec an idiot because he’ll be just like them you know and and I really
will say this in nonpartisan in a nonpartisan way um because we’re talking about preference aggregation data
aggregation so um it could be that majority rules still may be with
like a primary system still may be like I don’t want to say the best system but
it could be the like you said it’s an it’s in an equilibrium State okay how do you yeah how do you
yeah how do you dislodge that right um again I mentioned repeated interaction um now repeated interaction
has to have like consequences so what causes like a Cooperative equilibrium to
emerge uh evolutionarily uh is if you can punish
the non-cooperators so if you can punish the whatever the
people that steal the people that do drugs the people that um or the politicians that steal the politicians
that do drugs the politicians that you know make decisions bad for the country
uh and so forth um in in the political case um what I think some Outlets are trying
to do is uh as far as news or otherwise are trying to align
the incentives of the politicians with the incentives of the broader
public ideally that is what should happen in every representative democracy
but you know part of it it takes uh you know again that reputational effect is
is maybe one example again other things I’ll put this way we
didn’t discuss Jerry mandering oh yeah right so again anyone that has done any
math can see like if I have like two Center of gravity you split them down the middle
so if I have like two cities with major population centers you split them down the middle and that’s how you draw the
districts so part of the problem also is there is a feedback loop between people
choosing the politicians and the politicians choosing the voters and this
has been a uh again folks especially mathematically oriented would say well we should have more of a uh a system
where we draw the lines you know again to break up the centers of gravity uh of a of a state or a uh District in a in a
more obvious geometric way versus like the way that Fon county is is drawn up Shameless plug we had a whole thing on
Jerry mandering so you can go to the science for Georgia YouTube and watch a whole lecture on mathematically choosing
districts which is what again a couple states have started voting to do is that a computer sets the boundary or a
nonpartisan board sets the boundaries in which case against um like they’ve shown
through studies that that means you end up with more centus candidates who actually listen to their constituents
because they are more apt to be thrown out if they don’t and and and again to to counter I
it might not be Centrist for lack of a better word it might be populist can or you know
broadly align broadly appeal align yeah broad appeal yeah okay one more question
I got several thoughts as this was going on um I don’t know that we actually need districts I think we could just say how
many people in the country voted this and voted that um people that got elected because of the way that the
um Electoral College voted would probably not want to change that but I think you you made sort of rhetorical
question of of how do we get away from majority rule and it’s hard because majority rule is just real easy to
understand it’s just real simple it sounds real fair so if we’re going to get away from it it would take a whole
lot of Education into why these other systems into what’s going on I was I was
telling a friend of mine who’s in my opinion quite educated and intelligent where I was going tonight and he said I
never heard of that I’m going to go look it up so it was kind of amazing to me but he maybe not to know as much any
more about it than I did he didn’t even know that it was a thing so education as
always winds up being a critical piece of all this thank you I love it and
that’s right that’s why groups like science for Georgia are important science means knowledge right and how
does knowledge get how does knowledge emerge but I I’ll I’ll offer maybe to close this idea for you is the idea of
the Steel Man versus a straw man if someone opposes your Viewpoint
can you take what you think they’re saying and make a stronger version of it
can you make a steel man out of their argument and then if you can knock the
Man of Steel down then your argument is superior and that’s actually what science does when you have to site a
paper you don’t site the weak version of it you say these are five reasons you
know uh I fiser theory of uh the emergence of uh sexual selection is
valid in mammals right and then you say but this is this other theory that says
oh it’s about uh bacteria and resistance and and variability in the genome right
so you have to in science deliver the strongest version of your opponent’s argument before you attempt to knock it
down and I think we would get a lot better world if we say all right here’s what my opponent says let me do their
argument Justice and then see where and and get them to do the same that’s cooperating right and then I think we we
end up in a better world so thanks it’s nice to Georgia Thank you to
Jason thank you so much uh this was amazing thanks so much to Jason another
huge round of applause um uh I I only bought him one beer and
he said all those nice things about our organization so thank you so much uh so uh we’re here all the time uh please
check us out online because we have events like this all the time and we’re so pleased that you came to join us uh
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one thank you oh wait hold on two questions uh one is the next one
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